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Green Lane
  • Topic created by kathyu on Wed Oct 7, 2020 at 11:16 am
    Kathy Urban (kathyu)
    Num Posts: 582
    Primary Club: DVOA
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    First O: 2004
    Had a nice hike starting from Knight Road at Green Lane.  That area is very interesting with random trails and bodies of water all irregular shapes.  Has DVOA ever considered expanding the map?
  • Reply by EricW on Wed Oct 7, 2020 at 5:47 pm
    Eric Weyman (EricW)
    Num Posts: 76
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    Kathy, there are numerous possible sections along Knight Road, generally seperated by inlets of the reservoir.
    Are you referring to a section or sections close to 29, Red Hill Road, Markley Road, 663, or all of them?
    Also, which side of Knight Road, or both?
  • Reply by kathyu on Thu Oct 8, 2020 at 7:03 pm
    Kathy Urban (kathyu)
    Num Posts: 582
    Primary Club: DVOA
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    First O: 2004
    I was referring to all of the park in that area.  It felt like a jigsaw puzzle.  I'll bet parking might be a problem.  The many road crossings of knight road are striped and marked.
  • Reply by EricW on Thu Oct 8, 2020 at 9:03 pm
    Eric Weyman (EricW)
    Num Posts: 76
    Primary Club: DVOA
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    I had a superficial look at some of this terrain many years ago, probably around the time of the initial Green Lane-Upper Perk map, and was uninspired by what I saw.

    However, judging by internet sources, it looks like many changes have taken place since then, including the possible addition of all the county-owned land on the NE (upland) side of Knight Road, which I was ignorant of.

    As you mention, parking is frequently a limiting factor, which we would need to figure out.
    Many of these sections are disconnected, or barely connected to each other, so mapping here would be more like a new map than an expansion.
    It helps greatly if Knight Road is deemed safe enough for O traffic to cross, which it might be. Your comment, and my look at Google Street View seem to support this.
    On the intriguing side, the vegetation type and patterns look strikingly different from anything else we have.

    Bottom line, it certainly looks like this terrain warrants another look.
  • Reply by shiatsuron on Thu Oct 15, 2020 at 5:17 pm
    Ron Barron (shiatsuron)
    Num Posts: 32
    Primary Club: DVOA
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    There isn't much parking up there. Only one big lot, along Knight Rd, towards it's east end, near Gravel Pike. That's where the horsey set parks for their rides. I know a lot of riders, even from Chester County that uses the trails N or Knights Rd to ride their horses. It's actually quite a maze of trails in there. Water just north of Knights Rd, interspersed with open fields, cedar trees....Quite lovely.
  • Reply by EricW on Tue Oct 27, 2020 at 10:16 pm
    Eric Weyman (EricW)
    Num Posts: 76
    Primary Club: DVOA
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    On a terrain report I would normally email a group of map people, but because of the original eboard interest in this terrain, I’m posting here.

    This report is longer than most, because there are more-than-normal complicating factors with this terrain.


    Green Lane - Knight Road Corridor Terrain Report

    It took three visits, but I’ve finally seen every section.

    In my perspective there is a series of seven sections, connected to each other, but barely so, with weak or bottleneck connections.

    I assume readers can find an available map to follow along.

    Starting on the north side of the dam breast we have the existing map of Green Lane Nature Center.. Going counterclockwise (approx northwest ) around the reservoir are six more definable sections, three on each side of Knight Road.

    A. The existing GLNC map is now 15 years old, and almost certainly needs a major update to be used for a regular event. Also there is a contour interval issue with this map that could be improved upon.

    The forest vegetation is still nice enough in general.

    This section easily has the best parking options, even aside from the Elementary School, which has already proven sufficient for a local event.

    Unfortunately this area is situated at the extreme end of the potential terrain.

    I sense that the Nature Center may no longer exist. Some buildings have been torn down, and this area seems to be known as Hemlock Point.

    B. The next section north, has the next best local meet parking possibility (still not a certainty), along Knight Road. This might be large enough for a local event, but barely so, and must shared and coordinated with a sizable number of equestrians (needing much space) and general park users.

    C. This is the first “upland” section on the NE side of Knight Road.

    D. This is the first of two peninsula -like sections on the SW side of Knight Road, protruding into the reservoir.

    E. This is the middle upland section between Markley and Red Hill Roads.

    F. This is the second, smaller peninsula-like section. This has a mini P lot, not even large enough for a beginner event.

    G. This is the third, northwest-most upland area on the NE side of Knight Road.



    None of these sections has notable contour features, at best a few more soft reentrants than shown on the USGS.


    Area B has a good amount of very nice (white) hardwood forest, and the existing map map (A) has the next best forest.

    The rest of the areas have a combination of various stages of rough open areas, which transition into cedar (or juniper?) dominated forest, which, while not impassable, would be mostly mapped as light and medium green.

    The three upland areas (CEG) on the NE side of Knight Road are mostly mature cedar plantations, sill mostly a shade of green.

    The peninsula sections (DF) on the SW side of the road have more rough open and scrubbier, younger cedar trees, with the exception of some strips of white hardwood forest on steep slopes along the reservoir.

    There is some thorny vegetation mixed in everywhere, not prohibitive, at least an average amount by DVOA “Briar Patch” standards.


    The three “upland” sections (CEG) have very complex trail networks, involving curving, looping, mountain bike trails, on top of an older network of linear forest management trails/rides.

    In total, I think these networks rival (or top?) the most intricate sections on any DVOA map that I can think of. Mt Penn, and Valley Forge Fatlands (years past) come to mind.

    Even though these mtn bike trails are probably relatively new, they appear to be well established, and without evidence of renegade unmanaged trails, such as on Mt Penn.

    For me this is easily the most interesting attraction of all this potential Green Lane terrain, and applicable to all course levels.

    The peninsula sections (DF) have simple trail networks, mostly around their perimeter, leaving the center of these area with relatively thick vegetation, and few ways to create route choices through the middle.


    There are definitely plenty of scenic water features, but mostly around the edges, and not many water features involved in the actual O “playing field”


    Almost no significant rock features.


    A few cultural features, but only average or less.

    TECHNICAL LEVELNone of this area is normal advanced course terrain. I think the trail mazes are interesting, even for advanced orienteers, but there is no conventionally challenging advanced terrain. The next most challenging theme would be figuring out yellow/green vegetation intricacies, which can easily border on being unpleasant.



    Traffic- I would describe Knight Road’s traffic as moderate in volume and speed.

    There are very good sight distances along straight stretches of road, but very poor visibility to the sides, where orienteers might emerge.

    The road has little or no shoulder, and sometimes it’s just two lanes with guard rails.

    Road crossings- There are multiple official trail crossings along Knight Road. They are well marked and signed, and seem to be well respected by motorists, which might account for me not noticing any speeding, where it would normally be tempting.

    Equestrian use- As others have noted, the larger parking area along Knight road is an active center for equestrian activity. I believe all or most of the trails are multi use, which brings the potential for orienteering – horse problems. Granted we seem to co-exist well enough at other venues (Fair Hill and other places?), but here a much higher percentage of O use would be on-trail.

    However, despite all the trailers in the parking lot, I didn’t cross paths with a single equestrian during my time in the terrain (6+hrs and mostly on trail).


    There is enough terrain here for long courses, up to roughly 12km Blue length, although not with normal technical difficulty.

    A practical mapping approach might be to start with the SE most sections, A&B, with the nicest forest, no road crossing, and best parking, and add sections further N and W if enthusiasm/demand permits.

    This small area would probably allow W, Y, and easy Brown/ short Orange.

    The most remote trail networks (E& G) seem to be the best, but not reachable by Brown and Green courses from A or B

    Sections D and F have low value for advanced courses, and are not reachable by W and Y from projected parking area(s)


    There is a potential local meet size parking spot, in a good location with an open mowed area, on a lot owned (or at least posted) by Aqua PA on the SW side of Knight Road in section F at the Markley Road intersection. The odds of getting permission are probably very low, but I thought this was at least worth mentioning.

    As mentioned previously, there is another official, but very small parking lot nearby, along Knight Road, also in section F.



    If we have a driving-force member who understands all the issues, and takes responsibility as course setter or meet director, I would say, go for it.

    If we don’t have such a take-charge member, I think there are too many complications and shortcomings to justify the risk/reward investment in mapping this entire terrain as a general local meet map.

    On the positive side, I think this terrain would be a good candidate for a developing map concept, which I’ll describe as DIY orienteering, with semi-permanent courses.

    This would compliment the parking situation very well.

    Has anyone figured out a way to monetize the DIY format?




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